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The same certainty we have on the Bible and Jesus Christ, other people from other religions have on their gods and "holy books" (between commas because I'm one of those who have the certainty about Bible) and I have no explanation for that and I'd like one so I can answer some friends about it.

Thanks in advance.

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    To be honest, Freemasonry touches on this fact. I don't really see a question in your post, however. You will probably not find an answer that is satisfactory to you on a Christianity specific forum.
    –  user1054
    Jan 16, 2012 at 21:31
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    I think some beliefs have a stronger opinion on truth than others. From my limited understanding, I think that Judaism, Christianity and Islam (and Atheism?) would each claim to possess The Truth. But Hinduism (and "weak" Agnosticism, by definition) I think tends to be less "certain", for want of a better word. Jan 17, 2012 at 21:01
  • Vatican II Document on Relations between Catholic Church and other religions well worth a read as it highlights what Christians might admire about other religions.
    –  Peter Turner
    Jan 17, 2012 at 22:46
  • I'm not sure what kind of question your asking or what kind of answer you're looking for. Wouldn't "people differ in their beliefs" essentially cover the "explanation" you seem to seek?
    –  Chelonian
    Jan 21, 2012 at 7:18

5 Answers

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This is an interesting question. Many people are firmly convinced that their religious position is, indeed, true. This includes atheistic positions as well. Yet, the question is not with the level of certainty an individual has, but the validity of that certainty. As on writer put it, "faith is only as strong as the object of that faith."

The illustration of ice is mentioned. A traveler from the Arctic regions may visit a warmer climate in winter. While in his home town, they drive cars on the lakes at this point, where he is visiting only seldom as ice thick enough to walk on. Coming upon a lake, he may leap out onto it with all the certainty possible. Yet the object of his faith does not hold up, and he gets very wet and very cold.

Another person from the mild climate may visit an arctic region, and with great timidity, gently step out onto a lake that is covered by two feet of ice. His uncertainty is placed in an object that can well accommodate his act of faith, and he remains dry and on solid "ground".

So, again, faith is only as strong as the object of that faith. As Spurgeon exhorted, "never make a Christ out of your faith." It is not the strength of our faith that saves us, but the truthfulness of salvation that God offers to us through Christ.

So, the real question in this matter is which religious belief is true. All religious beliefs which are false, including atheism, will not support our weight if we put our trust in them. Christianity, however, will indeed support our weight as we put our trust in Jesus, despite the timidity or certainty of our faith.

Christianity alone has overwhelming evidence to support its truthfulness, including hundreds of predictive prophecies fulfilled in Jesus, the inexplicable growth of Christianity in the face of severe and extensive persecution at its very birth, billions of transformed lives, and on and on and on and on... but that's another question.

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    The number of non-Christians through the last 2000 years and present strongly disputes and refutes your "overwhelming". And none of the things in your last paragraph are unique to Christianity. Tenacity also says nothing about truth. Also, atheism does not make bizarre random claims about things outside our observation; it is not constructive to call it a religion.
    –  Marc Gravell
    Jan 16, 2012 at 17:59
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    @MarcGravell The number of unbelievers has nothing to do with whether or not there is overwhelming evidence, unless everyone was well informed of the evidence and was under no compulsion to believe anything and had no biases, but just made the most logical deduction. Even then, percentages do not make something actually correct. The world once believed the earth was flat, but the world was wrong. The hundreds of predictive prophecies are, in fact, unique to Christianity (and the Old Testament). What other religions faced as much persecution?
    –  Narnian
    Jan 16, 2012 at 18:10
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    @Natnian I enirely agree that numbers do not make something true; they do, however, have a huge meaning on the use of the word "overwhelming". If it was "overwhelming", then we would be ... Overwhelmed and compelled to believe by the strength of the evidence. That is what "overwhelming" means. We aren't ; it isn't overwhelming.
    –  Marc Gravell
    Jan 16, 2012 at 18:12
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    persecution: hard to measure for young religions, since there are few new "religions" (unless we count Christian sects and Mormonism as separate religions); but in the general case: most of them. Quite often at the hands of Cristianity (among others).
    –  Marc Gravell
    Jan 16, 2012 at 18:13
  • @MarcGravell I would still assert that the evidence is quite compelling, and even overwhelming, to those who look at it objectively. We have a difference of opinion on this.
    –  Narnian
    Jan 16, 2012 at 18:29
  • @MarcGravell Can you give examples of "Most of them"? Perhaps 5-10 of them?
    –  Narnian
    Jan 16, 2012 at 18:31
  • @MarcGravell I'm just classifying atheism as a belief system regarding the divine. Charities of all sorts--secular and sacred--have tax exempt status in the United States.
    –  Narnian
    Jan 16, 2012 at 18:32
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    I'd start with obvious ones; Judaism (by... Everyone it seems), Islam (Crusades), the Aztec polytheism (Christianity enforced), most European paganism (not one religion; many: mostly suppressed by force by Catholicism)
    –  Marc Gravell
    Jan 16, 2012 at 18:43
  • Judaism persecuted Christians to begin with. From early on, Islam killed Jews and Christians both. Certainly people have done many atrocities in the name of Christianity--using that for their own desires, i.e. the Crusades. True Christians have always been on the receiving end of persecution, though. Aztec polytheism certainly was not affronted in its infancy, though. The Crusades did not occur in Islam's infancy either. European paganism had been around for much longer than Christianity as well.
    –  Narnian
    Jan 16, 2012 at 18:55
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    I already said about not being in infancy; Christianity is waving a trump there, in that we don't have good records about the infancy of most of the other main religions
    –  Marc Gravell
    Jan 16, 2012 at 19:22
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You are correct, in that all religions all, when measured objectively and independently, essentially have the same level of firm proof, and (give or take) the same level of depth of feeling in the believers (I'm omitting "cultural" associates from this).

This applies both to non-Chistian faiths, and also to the various sects within Christianity - with many fragments entirely convinced of the validity of another competing particular position.

It is interesting. And keep in mind that your belief that another religion is false is exactly what that religion reciprocates - by definition most religions are exclusive.

Put another way: if there was an answer to this, there would be (given our current global communications capability) exactly one religion or zero religions (depending on the result).

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    The idea that all religions have equal proof is greatly disputed. The idea that there would be exactly one religion assumes that if all people had all the evidence, they would universally accept the one truth, and that personal bias, cultural influences, and other influences (demonic, sin, etc.) would have no influence. This is quite hard to accept.
    –  Narnian
    Jan 16, 2012 at 21:12
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    @Narnia Yeah, you're right... there are other religions with more proof than Christianity <jk> :) I for one believe that human nature is to do good. Even when we do "bad" things it is for a "good" reason. If there were truly one truth, verifiable by something other than "faith" then people would flock to it.
    –  user1054
    Jan 16, 2012 at 21:42
  • @DanAndrews I would dispute the idea that human nature is to do good. That would mean that the Holocaust, rape, pedophilia, and other heinous acts are engaged in for a "good" and noble reason. Some things can only be described as evil. And I disagree, again, that verifiable truth is not the only factor in why people choose to believe certain things. We disagree... that's ok, though.
    –  Narnian
    Jan 16, 2012 at 21:54
  • @Narnia the human ego is selfish. Rape and pedophilia are for self pleasure and I agree that they can be considered evil and detestable actions. The holocaust, as horrible as it was, was done because Hitler was revenging the death of Jesus (one of the many reasons) - he thought he was doing something good for his God and for his country. The thought wasn't unique either, look at the support from those is Rome. jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/pius.html Just FYI, he also killed between 80,000 and 200,000 Freemasons. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
    –  user1054
    Jan 17, 2012 at 14:04
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    One could say that the Crusades where evil but another person would say that is was done in the name of God and therefore "good".
    –  user1054
    Jan 17, 2012 at 14:07
  • Re: "if there was an answer to this, there would be...exactly one religion or zero religions". Not necessarily. People's beliefs are constantly getting disputed and shut down by other beliefs. Rarely does that change the person's belief. Chances are, they'll say in their head "I just have a lack of knowledge and understanding to back up this debate. They should speak to so-and-so [enter belief specialist(s) here].", and their faith sustains them.
    –  Nick Rolando
    Jan 17, 2012 at 20:10
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As you have observed, a feeling of certainty about religious beliefs is not a reliable indicator to the truth of those beliefs. The big four religions, worldwide, are Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism. (If you wanted to count atheism as a religion, but not merge it with Buddhism, it would probably be between Hinduism and Buddhism.) None have a majority (Christianity broadly construed is accepted by close to 1/3 of the earth's population), and all have sizable numbers of strong believers, advocates, fundamentalists, and so on.

You also can't trust claims of evidence or accuracy or personal benefit. You are already familiar, I take it, with (at least claims of) the extraordinary evidence that supports Christianity. But Islam can claim that many prophecies from the Quran have been fulfilled, and speed of its spread was astounding (far faster than Christianity), among other things. Hinduism is rather amorphous (far more diverse than Christianity), but there are no shortage of miracles (example) attributed to it. Buddhism is an essentially atheistic belief system in that it rejects the existence of God/gods (though it does have some supernatural elements), yet there are many stories of how it has positively changed people's lives.

Therefore, since many of the features of major religions look broadly the same, it must be the details that matter. In particular, if you are talking to friends who (strongly) hold other beliefs, be aware that they are likely to be in a similar situation as you, and if you're going to figure out who is right, you will need to listen respectfully and/or empathize with the feelings their religion may induce in them, while sharing your point of view. If you are talking to friends who hold the same beliefs as you and who are baffled why everyone else doesn't believe the same (maybe it's because they're evil?), you can point out that it's not nearly so obvious as they feel it is, since outwardly all major religions have many similar aspects.

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The certainty of religious faith applies to the existence of an ethical standard, which is coming from a moral lawgiver, from God. In logical positivist terms, evidence for the existence of God comes from observing that ethical standards are convergent, so that all people will eventually agree on what constitutes an ethical or unethical act given sufficient time.

This seems like a preposterous notion. But if you ask people of any of the big 5 religious faiths what constitutes ethical or unethical behavior, excluding specific religious doctrines or rituals, they will mostly agree! This convergence is astonishing, especially considering the lack of agreement in earlier times. The religions of South America demanded human sacrifice, for instance.

The functioning of the physical universe is not affected one bit by the existence of an ethical convergence. But in order to get the ethical standards to converge, you sometimes have to tell stories which claim ridiculous things happened, so as to spread the faith. This moral law has led otherwise nice people tell lies. I don't think you should tell lies. God tells me I should not tell lies.

God is not a substance like aluminum. It is a spiritual entity, found by introspection, which informs our ethical judgements. The ethical notion of God is universal to all humanity, and different aspects are revealed in different traditions. All these traditions have elements which are true, otherwise they would have been abandoned long ago. The elements of each faith which are most important slowly become more obvious with time.

No religion can sensibly claim primacy and exclude the others. The ethical principles of other religions are largely compatible with Christianity. They are only incompatible with Christian religious practice. So if you want to practice a religion, you have to choose. But the choice of a valid faith to practice is more like choosing which book you like the best, or which movie you want to see. Its not like choosing the right numbers in a lottery ticket, where all other numbers go to hell.

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    Downvote isn't mine, but two notes; if by "certainty", we mean the validity of the faith, the ethical convergence seems unrelated; I see no pre-condition that means that some "true" religion has to agree on ethics. And on your last line... well, Christianity does specifically believe that the other numbers go to hell, as does Islam, etc. I'm not sure this answer addresses the key points of the question. Oh, additional note: "elements which are true" (else abandoned) .... meh - truth is different to tenacity.
    –  Marc Gravell
    Jan 17, 2012 at 7:17
  • @Marc Gravell: I am coming from a logical positivist perspective, the philosophy of the physical scientists. Many in these sciences reject monotheistic religion, because it is not formulated in logical positivist terms: it makes metaphysical claims about realms which are not directly subject to observation. But the metaphysics is largely supefluous. If you focus on the practical teaching, you can extract the positive core, and understand fully the perspective of the religious doctrines, and why it is important, despite the metaphysics being unobservable.
    –  Ron Maimon
    Jan 17, 2012 at 14:54
  • In particular, the notion of a single lawgiver, or an almighty God, the single God of the monotheistic tradition, is essentially claiming that one God will beat out all the others over time. This is the major lesson of the Biblical stories, and of the Christianization of the Roman empire. If you look at the practices of the winning faith, the ethics is (slightly) better than what came before (in modern terms), so that the convergence of ethics seems to be the core positive prediction of the monotheist. I find that I can agree on this point, while the metaphysics, I don't care about that.
    –  Ron Maimon
    Jan 17, 2012 at 14:58
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    That many religions will agree on large overlapping portions of ethics is not at all astonishing. We are social animals and there are certain strategies that societies can take to better survive. Hence, those strategies propagate better. Strategies including not murdering each other, for example.
    –  Kaz Dragon
    Jan 19, 2012 at 13:41
  • @Kaz Dragon: It does not include not murdering infants, which seems to be a universal pre-monotheistic tradition in the middle east, or owning slaves, or condemning drug abuse, which is recent, or monogamy, or respecting private property, or progressive taxation, or the right to unionize, or universal education, or marriage by choice (as opposed to arrangement), or freedom of speech, or the right to elections, or a thousand other things that everyone agrees on now but were controversial in recent history.
    –  Ron Maimon
    Jan 20, 2012 at 5:33
  • @Ron Maimon I'm not sure what you're getting at. How does this invalidate my point?
    –  Kaz Dragon
    Jan 20, 2012 at 9:52
  • @RonMaimon Many of the practices you listed in response to Kaz Dragon are practiced by monotheist religions today or previously. Slavery is condoned in the Old Testament; freedom of speech is curtailed by some speaking for Islam; monogamy is allowed in some Islam and previously with Mormons; etc. The changes you list strike me more as modernist than religious.
    –  Chelonian
    Jan 21, 2012 at 7:15
  • @Chelonian: I agree that the list is not exclusive to montheistic religon, it reflects a convergence of ethical thinking. But within the old testament, this convergence is mandated by the idea that God's way wins out over all other ways, through twists and turns. This is the only point I see in the montheistic idea--- that social evolution is winner-takes-all, that not all ways are valid, and some will not survive, Within Christianity, the way that survives is not fixed by a rigid law, but is allowed to change with time, as the congregation is guided by the Holy Spirit.
    –  Ron Maimon
    Jan 23, 2012 at 9:17
  • @RonMaimon Could you state things rather simply? I don't understand your point.
    –  Chelonian
    Jan 23, 2012 at 17:30
  • @Chelonian: I just mean this--- ignore the metaphysics of religion. Forget about the unobservable stuff, like angels, or devils, or Heaven, or Hell, and forget about the reported miracles. What does religious thinking predict about the world that can be verified by observation? The one thing I can extract for sure from the Bible is that it predicts that in the struggles of history, there will be a winning side, and this side is the right side, in terms of ethics. This tells you that if the Nazis had won WWII, there would have been struggle for centuries, that would have toppled their rule.
    –  Ron Maimon
    Jan 24, 2012 at 8:29
  • This is the only statement I can extract from religion that is not either unobservable metaphysics or obvious falsehoods. It is telling you that there is a right and wrong in ethics, determined from outside our limited minds, and that the long struggles of history manifest this right and wrong over time, imperfectly. In the monotheistic tradition, God's eventual overcoming of earthly foes is why the Roman traditions fell to Christianity. It is a strong positive prediction that seems to be correct when reviewing history. It obviously didn't end 2000 years ago, it is still going on.
    –  Ron Maimon
    Jan 24, 2012 at 8:32
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If you are like me, then you will believe there are no holes in our bible, being the inerrant Word of God, and that makes it easy to defend. But as with other religions and beliefs, you will have to dive in and study them, and find ways to debunk them. As @RexKerr said, you need to do this entirely in love. You aren't going to save souls for Christ without showing them God's love and having empathy for them, understanding, respect, etc., even if they aren't doing the same for you (remember, your love is fed from God, not other people). You will just have a debate that will leave a bitter taste in both your mouths, and will really get you guys nowhere but having doubts in the things that got disputed and will cause both parties to research more to further back up their beliefs, if anything. Also you should have something to say as to where your certainty comes from, and try to be a witness to them (always sprinkling in the message of the Gospel) :)

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